Choosing an OBGYN with Confidence, with Daisy Vance (Birth Doula & Certified Breastfeeding Counselor)
In this episode of the Breath and Birth Co Podcast, host Vanessa, a hospital-based DONA-certified birth doula, is joined by Daisy Vance, an experienced Birth Doula and Certified Breastfeeding Counselor from Westerville, Ohio. They explore crucial topics such as the importance of selecting a supportive care provider, the value of prenatal and postpartum support services, and practical tips for making the most of prenatal appointments. Daisy shares her journey into birth work, emphasizing the significance of seeking aligned and supportive care, including recommendations for additional resources like chiropractors, massage therapists, and supportive community groups. Join the conversation to feel informed, supported, and empowered on your pregnancy journey.
“I don't think enough weight is put on the decision in choosing who will be the provider for your care when you're pregnant.”
- Daisy Vance
🔑 5 Key Takeaways from Episode 30:
1. Choose Your Provider Wisely: Ask detailed questions to ensure your healthcare provider supports your birth plan.
2. Expand Your Support Team: Consider incorporating a prenatal chiropractor, massage therapist, and dietary guidance.
3. Join a Community: Align with groups that share your values to gain additional support and resources.
4. Self-Advocate: Be prepared to ask questions and seek clarity from your provider.
5. Empowerment Through Information: Utilize trusted sources and birth education classes that align with your birth philosophy.
Daisy’s Recommended Reading
Discovering a Personal Path to Birth Work
Daisy shared her journey into birth work, which began during her studies in public health education at Otterbein University. Her passion for maternal infant care led her to a role in Franklin County, where she witnessed firsthand the disparities and challenges faced by low-income, BIPOC families in Columbus. This fueled her determination to ensure women have access to the resources and support they need during one of the most vulnerable times in their lives.
Communicating with Your Care Provider
One of the core themes of our discussion was the importance of finding the right care provider. Daisy emphasized the need for pregnant individuals to feel heard and understood by their healthcare providers. She offered practical advice on asking probing questions and ensuring your provider aligns with your birth goals. It's vital to explore all possible options and remember that even if you're well into your second trimester, it's never too late to switch providers if needed.
We also touched on my own free guide that’s available for download and walks you through how to choose or change your OB-GYN or Midwife with confidence. You can find that FREE GUIDE here.
Building Your Support Network
Daisy advises assembling a comprehensive support network that extends beyond just your OBGYN. This can include a:
prenatal chiropractor
massage therapist
dietitian
All of whom can provide valuable assistance during pregnancy. Additionally, she stressed the importance of community—whether through online forums or local groups—to share experiences and gain support.
Empowerment Through Education and Advocacy
Our conversation also touched on the pivotal role of self-advocacy during pregnancy. Daisy encouraged listeners to explore resources, ask questions, and be persistent in seeking answers. She highlighted the significance of feeling empowered and safe under the care of a provider who respects your wishes and provides individualized care.
The Lasting Impact of Birth Work
Daisy spoke passionately about her commitment to birth work, sharing the intrinsic joy she finds in supporting families and witnessing their empowerment through the birthing process. Her dedication is driven by moments of triumph and the realization of families' dreams in the birthing space.
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00:00 Introduction to the Breath and Birth Co Podcast
00:47 Meet Daisy Vance: Certified Birth Doula
02:01 Daisy's Journey into Birth Work
04:27 Choosing the Right Care Provider
06:22 The Importance of Asking Questions
20:02 Building Your Birth Team
24:02 Maximizing Your Prenatal Appointments
24:44 The Beauty and Challenges of Pregnancy
25:12 Preparing for Prenatal Appointments
25:56 Communicating with Your Provider
27:24 Switching Providers: Steps and Considerations
29:20 Community Support and Resources
32:03 Hospital Birth Realities
34:59 Empowerment and Birth Preferences
38:01 Books and Resources for Expecting Parents
43:16 The Importance of Support
45:14 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
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Vanessa: Welcome to the Breath and Birth co podcast. I'm Vanessa, a hospital-based DONA- international certified birth doula, and passionate childbirth educator. I love to merge the power of your intuition with the precision of modern medicine to help you navigate pregnancy and birth your way. Each week, we kick off with Monday meditations to bring calm and connection to your pregnancy.
Then we build your confidence through insights, birth stories, and care provider perspectives during thoughtful Thursdays. Ready to feel supported, informed, and empowered. Hit subscribe to the Breath and Birth Code podcast today and let's embark on this transformational journey together. As a reminder, any information shared here is not medical advice.
For more details, visit breath and birth code.com/disclaimer.
Vanessa: Hello. Today, I've got Daisy Vance here with me. She's a certified birth doula through International Doula Institute and a certified breastfeeding counselor in Westerville, Ohio, serving the greater Columbus area. She also has experience as a certified health education specialist with the state of Ohio and Franklin County Public Health.
Welcome, Daisy. Can you share with our listeners a little bit more about yourself personally?
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: I'm Daisy. Personally, I'm a mom to my little three year old girl. And then I'm a wife to my husband, who's absolutely my best friend. I'm located here in Westerville, Ohio. So kind of the central Ohio region is where I serve. I'm a Christian woman, so my faith is a big part of my practice, but I'll serve any and all kinds of people and beliefs, as well as I'm very natural, so I don't just support natural births, but personally I'm very holistic, so if we work together, or if you just know me as a friend, I'll probably bother you a lot about what you eat, or what we're doing, or where we're hanging out, and just trying to get us to be our best selves, in whatever case that might look like,
i'm 24, and I'm really just, I'm excited to be in this work, and I hope I can do it for a long time.
Vanessa: Oh, that's awesome. Thank you Daisy. So you kind of mentioned your background there. Is there anything in particular that brought you to birth work through your experience? Mm-hmm
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Yes, so, uh, birth work itself, kind of throughout my undergrad, I went to Otterbein University. Um, there I was studying public health education, but were kind of driven to find an area of specialty just because, you know, health is a huge, huge, huge area of study. I, of course, was drawn to maternal infant.
, I was interested in that kind of my whole life, and through that experience, I ended up getting that role at Franklin County. , That was my first getting my toes wet in birth work. I was just really pumped to kind of be in the field, on the ground, working with these women and their families firsthand.
And seeing, Genuinely, like, the discrimination, the lack of education, the lack of resources, very, very, very limited transportation. Granted, our population we served was specifically low income, BIPOC families, so, they're not given the best start, especially in, the part of Columbus that they're living.
So we were kind of that liaison to try to get them anything and all that we could through our resources. This just highlighted The extreme, extreme needs, especially in Columbus, that women are just not being served in the way that they should during one of the most vulnerable times of their life. And
Vanessa: Yeah.
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: kind of leaving that role, I was finishing out my, my senior year at Otterbine and I ended up having a surprise pregnancy, which I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm still in school.
This could not be happening right now. So that kind of just solidified, like, I don't need to break down my, my whole birth story just yet, unless we want to later. Um, but going through that as a 20, 21 year old female, who I would say maybe more educated than like baseline because of my work I was doing.
But I really I have all that knowledge, how birth went, how birth should go, providers, birth plans, all those things that really do matter in the long term. , So that journey of learning, when I had to learn, I didn't have a choice, really, uh, grew that passion in me to help other women who might be in a similar life stage of just, unknown.
Vanessa: Yeah, that's wonderful. , One of your biggest misconceptions you see in pregnancy and birth?
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Honestly, people perceiving that their birth is just kinda gonna go as it goes. They stick with, their provider they've had their whole life. So, as females, we have that. Traditional care, yearly or bi yearly, whatever you're used to, um, and that person is there for routine stuff.
Maybe our parents use them, maybe our sister uses them, maybe a friend recommended them. And we don't really question it, because they're just checking to make sure nothing's wrong. So if we're comfortable, we go with it. And then you find out you're pregnant! And you're like, okay, I now need to start my prenatal care.
I need to have my first visit. Of course, you're just default going to stick with the person you've worked with your whole life, because that's probably the only OBGYN you've had care with, or as of recent. Um, but in more cases than not, that provider, and I guess for sake of explanation, I'll just kind of specifically focus on OBGYNs, because midwives are a little bit different.
. But that OBGYN has next to, if not, the most important role in your prenatal experience, your labor and delivery, and sometimes even your postpartum recovery. , And I don't think enough weight is put on the decision in choosing who will be the provider for your care when you're pregnant, for sure.
Vanessa: Yes, yes, I could not agree more so much. So in fact, as we discussed earlier,, my freebie is fire. Find your birth care provider with confidence because it is the The most important decision you'll make when you find out you're pregnant and it can change the trajectory of your birth story from the very beginning. And so, what are some specific , examples of things that you would recommend people look for in a care provider?
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: So, most importantly, when you're looking for anybody to take care of you or be there for you in a vulnerable stage of life, you want to make sure that you are heard and understood. And this doesn't mean So say you go to your first prenatal and you're bringing up concerns, or you're bringing up worries.
You don't want someone that just hears you and then checks a box. That's not active listening. That is not comprehending your needs, your desires, and the ways that they could help you. You need someone that fully dives in to something that you might be talking about, invests themselves into the situation you're facing, and is honestly and genuinely trying to help you in that journey.
So, for example, This could look like, say it's a mom who has a history of fetal loss, and she's with the same OB GYN, she lost her first pregnancy, she's now pregnant again. She stays with this OB GYN. She is concerned about the issues that might be happening. Um. She brings up these concerns in regards to maybe a hormonal issue with progesterone or maybe a diet issue where she wants to regulate hormones a little more holistically.
Vanessa: your
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: and the OBGYN is basically explaining to her
Vanessa: the
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: the statistics that she probably won't miscarry or the statistics that because she already had one and her family doesn't have a history, she's unlikely to have another one.
Vanessa: audience, but
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: This would be an example of someone not actively listening.
Vanessa: how
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: But more so, just excusing to get the worries out of the room, when, like, as a doula, if a mom ever comes to me with a concern, 90 percent of the time, they don't need a solution.
They just want somebody to hear them and be empathetic towards their concern. . So when you're looking at providers and trying to find a good provider, again, somewhat like I mentioned earlier, instead of going with somebody just automatically because you've had them your whole life, we want to ask a couple questions because prenatal care and delivery is much different than like traditional yearly annual care just for being.
with female reproductive organs. Some of these questions can look like figuring out kind of your birth goals and then specifically asking your provider their experience with those birth goals. So a big majority of my moms want to go for, an unmedicated all natural delivery. So that means they don't want induced.
They likely don't want an epidural. Um, and these are. Very, very common things, especially in the central Ohio area right now,
Vanessa: Okay.
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: of interventions are through the roof in our hospital systems. So, great question. How many unmedicated births have you supported in the last year?
Vanessa: What were your own personal birth stories if they have children..
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Uh, what do you do if my water breaks? Are you going to force me to come into the hospital or are you going to allow me to stay? I'm not and labor as long as I'm not feeling ill. Literally just directly asking the situations you may or may not be in.
And figuring out where their provider stands as well as their level of experience with the things that your goals are . the most clarity you're going to get is what they say, I would hope it's not going to lie and tell you they've had 300 unmedicated births in the last two years Because likely the births they Encourage are the births that they prefer so We have like lists of certain providers, as I'm sure most cities and states do, for people that might be more pro natural or more pro medical.
Um, this is where like c section rates come in, and
Vanessa: Hello.
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Grades come in, and it's public information, but it's usually really hard to find, so honestly my best advice is to just ask. And this takes a little bit of work on your part as the birthing person, but the best thing you can do is research your goals, get them written down.
Get them kind of understood and know your own reasons to why, and then interview some providers. You don't have to see one OBGYN. You can make appointments with as many as you heart wants, and until you find one that listens and understands and feels like will support your goals that I would keep searching because they can be the deciding factor in that labor and delivery, unfortunately.
Vanessa: Yes, yes, I agree with so much of what you said, and specifically to in terms of asking questions like you mentioned, it can take a lot of courage, especially for the people pleasers out there , to step into your own and self advocate, but it's not just surface level questions or they'll respond with like some statistic or something like you said, it's diving deeper. don't just accept their first response if it doesn't sit well with you or if you still have questions. Don't be afraid to continue asking those supplemental questions and see even how they react to that. Because a lot of times in conversation. If they up on the vibes that you're a self advocate and that can tell you a lot to if they lean into that and enjoy that and will up, to you vulnerably and share honestly , versus kind of retreat and get defensive and, start to throw random statistics in the conversation or defer questions, or we'll see about that when we get there, we'll see how things go,
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Yes.
Vanessa: know, those, those might be some red flags. So don't be afraid to ask questions and ask multiple levels of questions to
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: And kind of building on top of that, it doesn't matter when in pregnancy either. So, some people who may be listening to this are well into their second trimester. It is not too late to find a provider that supports you. You can still ask these questions and if you get answers that, like Vanessa said, you're just not confident and you're not comfortable with the things that you're hearing.
You can still find a new provider, a big, big, big telltale. I will get with some of my moms as, some people don't necessarily hire a doula or don't really understand what the value of those until they're further in their pregnancy. We'll plan. We'll talk through interventions. We'll discuss, risks, benefits, pros and cons for each individual family so that they can make their most educated decision.
They will go and present that to their provider, and oh my goodness, the majority of feedback I get is not positive. It's usually a, well, I'll have to take a look at it and see what I can do, which is just completely not correct. Like, no, you don't have an option unless, you know, a medical emergency takes place, but that's a whole different conversation.
If a person
Vanessa: Right.
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: receive your list of wishes with open arms and open heart, like red flag waving all over the floor.
Vanessa: Absolutely. Yes. And that is like you said, something we so commonly as birth do list will hear that providers , will say, Oh, I'll see what I can do, or I'll see what we can do. Like, No,
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Yep. Yes. Yes.
Vanessa: and so yeah, that would be a major red flag if your provider tells you that or Again tries to dismiss your wishes or Fear monger around certain things ask for The evidence behind what they're sharing and, multifaceted , questions around that in terms of with the fear mongering.
Sometimes they'll say, Oh, your rate of such and such doubles or triples. Well, what's the percentage chance? Or, you know, like, is it going from point 00, zero. five to point zero one because that's double. Sometimes they lean into those statistics in the wrong ways. , So just again, being educated on
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Yeah. Yeah.
Vanessa: puts it, you know, in the chart moves on, um, that's a good sign that they probably are not going to be, um, listening to you when they walk into the room, or when your nurse has to call them if you've not progressed in labor, after their certain timeline curve , they're the ones that are going to be directing that nursing staff and how it.
What options to present you are interventions to present you before they even step into the room while you're in labor.
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Yeah.
Vanessa: Yeah, so that is an excellent point. I'm trying to think you touched on something else too that I wanted to go back to. I mentioned the nurses versus the OB GYN too. And the fact that your OB GYN will likely just be walking in as you're crowning or pushing, like you might even be pushing for a while before they get there. And so, There is also a chance in questions you should be asking prenatally around how that practice is structured in terms of on call or who may show up to your birth because it, it might be a high likelihood that you don't even get that provider at your birth , or for the majority of your labor being the one guiding the nurses into what intervention conversations they should be having with you. So do you want to dive into that a little bit?
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Yeah, so kind of thinking of having a discussion with your OBGYN. Similar to kind of the people pleasing struggle, I'm not as well, so many of us are not as well because we don't want to step on toes, but thinking of those early conversations that really don't, like they matter a whole bunch, but in the stake of anything happening to you directly in that moment.
Nothing's going to come of it, other than you might feel a little embarrassed or you might feel disrespected, which ultimately we never want to happen in that care setting.
Vanessa: you.
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Um, but if that does happen and you have those conversations, it's really, really, really great practice for when you are in that hospital setting.
So like we talked about with nurses, you will probably see. Maybe one or two providers like, like OBGYNs or floor midwives, honestly, during your entire care stay, unless you're there for like over three or four days in the labor and delivery. Um, because nurses are your teammates. I always tell my moms when we're prepping for kind of what it looks like to go through labor on.
And delivery at a hospital. I'm like, honestly, you're kind of hanging out most of the time. You're going to have nurses bothering you all the time, but you won't have doctors probing you. Your provider, unfortunately, will not be there until, like we said, literally pushing, especially if it's a first time mom, providers will literally wait until they get a call that baby's crowning.
Like it's insane. Oh. So really, really preparing your mental and your partner or whoever's support system you're bringing with you to be that advocate in addition to you. So we want to prepare ourselves to have those hard conversations. We want to prepare our birth plans or any type of structured outline of our goals.
And we want to make sure that Everybody that will be in our birth space is on board with those expectations and goals. I feel like a hole I see sometimes, especially if, you know, I was hired somewhat later on, is the mom's on board, she's gung ho, she's ready to rock and roll, but the partner or the mom or a sister or whoever's gonna be in that space isn't on the same page.
So now we're having conflict. and we're having pushback from way too many people in that area. So if we can have clarity through the family, bring those birth plans, if they're in your file, awesome. Get everybody on board. And then when we do get to the labor and delivery space, with or without a doula, if it's just your family, awesome.
, Those conversations are already 10 times easier because there's no need for it. So when you're communicating with those nurses, I like to say, let's do it first and foremost for the most obvious reason of, one, when labor progresses, we do not want to talk to people. We are so in the space. We're so in the game.
You're not about to run your mouth to this nurse about your intermittent monitoring. Like you're just getting through the contractions. Have everybody on that same page already, especially the staff, then more often than not, that labor is going to run smoothly. And then, God willing, your provider should have that information ahead of time if they were listening and encouraging of you throughout your pregnancy , so when they arrive, there's not too much need for all of these big conversations to be had, but if things go awry, you've already got your family and your support system on board, so you can relax.
And you can submit to that delivery and you can enjoy your birth experience and have all of your teammates, hopefully your nurses as well, on that same team with you to help you in that journey.
Vanessa: yes. I love that. , And you bring up an excellent point too, , your care provider, in terms of your OBGYN, is not Your full care team. you mentioned birth doula, you're one, I'm one. So anybody listening to the podcast, probably knows our stance on how important a birth doula can be to how your birth story unfolds and just , helping yourself advocate and educate yourself through that. What are some other examples of people that you would recommend being on somebody's birth team, starting in, prenatally and during pregnancy?
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Yeah, absolutely. So one of the big things I give my families is like a full resource sheet because there's so many awesome providers that can support women. prenatally or postpartum , of course, right off the bat, we always have the provider talk. And then additionally, I kind of jump into, it's definitely self care and it's definitely extra, uh, expenditures, but I always say they're well worth.
Their value and money. So I always recommend a chiropractor prenatal prenatally trained chiropractors are absolutely amazing for not only relieving your pain during pregnancy, but preparing your pelvis and your body for a safe and healthy delivery. So many women have issues. Just because of how our bodies are, like naturally, we just as women have issues.
I don't know why, but it's more common than not. And you wouldn't know those issues unless you went and saw a chiropractor. So they can be great for all the way through prenatal periods, or even if you just kind of get enrolled with one in your third trimester, it can be great to establish that relationship because that might be kind of the kicker when you're in labor and say you're having a couple days where you're stalled at maybe three or four centimeters.
Sometimes an adjustment is all your body needs to keep going , because there might be some blockage either your pelvis might be cocked, your coccyx might be a little off center, there might be literally just some basic alignment issues that is the missing puzzle piece , as well as massage. So not only does it feel awesome, and it's very relaxing.
But we know that blood flow and circulation are really, really important for a healthy pregnancy. So finding massage. that's prenatally trained as well. We want to make sure they're educated on the pressure points to avoid. And seeing them either regularly or again. just somewhat building a relationship with one so that you can get in to make appointments if you start to have pain or discomfort.
, These are great things to do in first trimester where physically you might be feeling okay besides, you know, dreaded nausea. , But yes, so finding people that you trust, chiropractors, masseuses are great. I also encourage really taking a look at your diet. This might not be necessarily hiring a dietician or seeing a formal service for it,
Vanessa: Um,
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: out there for prenatal nutrition and postpartum nutrition as well.
Um, it's honestly just a perfect time to kind of take a 360 degree view at yourself, what you're doing with your body, what you're doing with your life, not in general, just kind of your values and where you're putting your priorities,
Vanessa: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Okay.
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: for some women kind of like a, okay, this is a lot. I'm going to really put value in this and try to help myself. Um, and there's so many people out there who love and support this stage of life as well. So there's really awesome community out there. Providers and just people in general.
So I would say the last thing too, I encourage my families to do is find groups, find support groups, Facebook groups, church groups, community groups, anything you can to kind of align with other people at the same stage of life. We'll leave you not only empowered and strengthened, but there's a lot of questions that come up and worries and concerns.
So it's nice to just have people to talk it out with.
Vanessa: Yes. Yes. Community is such a big piece of that. And like you talked about before, it's finding community that's aligned with your values and your priorities to, that can make all the difference knowing that you're supported in your decisions instead of having to fight outward while you're trying to look inward.
Right. Especially during labor and delivery. So you mentioned asking questions to your OBGYN during appointments. And that sometimes these appointments can only be 10 or 15 minutes, which is also mind boggling. And the further along you get in pregnancy, the shorter that they tend to be. so what are your thoughts on that or any advice you have in terms of making the most of that time with your provider to make sure again that you're communicating clearly and with the provider that you want?
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Yes. So, yeah, it's crazy to me that your appointments go from like 30 minutes to an hour to sometimes 15 minutes max with one, one measuring of the belly and one listening of heart tones. And then they're like, you're good. Have a nice day. , I think pregnancy just as, as a person birthing a baby. In terms of the biological thing, it's pretty great when it's unbothered.
In regards to, or I guess when I say that meaning, just enjoy the process because being pregnant is beautiful, it's fun, it can be terrible, but you're also doing a fantastic thing, but when you're going to those appointments or you're planning those appointments out, it's really great to be prepared for them.
So, In the same way you might prepare a birth plan, in the same way you might prepare your postpartum plan in regards to whether you're, however you're feeding baby, how you're diapering baby, what soaps you're using, um, I think we put so much value on kind of the teeny, teeny, tiny details in our culture that we forget about the big picture of like, You are growing a baby inside of you, so you have every right to ask any and all questions that you want.
But because of the way our obstetric system works, with that short time you have for appointments, you kind of have to put in a lot of work on the front end. So, like we discussed with birth plans, kind of working through them, talking them out, having them organized, and then bringing them in. You want to kind of do the same thing with any questions you might have.
So, it is your provider's job to, you know, Present you with research, present you with the information, present you with their experiences and the things that they like, they might lean closer to or further away from as a pregnant person. It is your job to have those concerns clearly put forth because they can't read your mind at the end of the day.
Um, and most people just have classic care where they check all the boxes and they go home. So your provider is likely not used to someone being super curious or wanting all of the information on a certain part of pregnancy. So the best thing you can do is either brainstorm at home like with your partner or family member as well.
, Keeping a little journal maybe. for just for your prenatal appointments or your pregnancy curiosities. And then always bringing those with you to appointments. So you can one, write down everything you learned because again, everything's fast. So they might just spit all this information at you. Um, and then as well as to have your questions or concerns kind of pre jotted down.
So you can be like, Hey, okay, I have four questions I wanted to ask you now. And then they're also mentally prepared. To either, you know, take a seat or lean on the counter or really try to be present with you in that moment versus just quickly firing back responses to something they thought you might not really care that much about.
Vanessa: And so talked a lot about asking the good questions, asking multilayered questions. And some of the red flags in terms of responses, but what would you recommend if somebody after having a conversation with their OBGYN, hearing , maybe it's their tone of voice or the actual information or just the way that they felt, unseen or unheard, and they're perhaps exploring the idea or coming to the realization that maybe this isn't the provider for me. What do you recommend as next steps there?
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: For sake of the mom's mental, because switching prenatal care is stressful regardless of when you have to do it, um, usually my first go to is to ask for, A possible visit with other providers in the same practice. So that way you might not need to have all of your health information switched. You're probably already familiar with like the sonographer and the intake nurses and the different things because the providers can be very different person to person.
So that practice at the end of the day doesn't necessarily have hardcore instilled values to each OB that they hire. But each OB has to report on their own to the state for their certification. So, Susie over here could be very pro Caesarean, very pro episiotomy, very pro induction at 39 weeks, whereas Timmy over here loves supporting, physiological birth, never does Caesareans unless medically necessary, um, but they're in the same office, you just wouldn't know because you've never met Timmy.
So that can kind of be a good intro, and in that way, you would do the same of Ask for a meeting, ask those really important questions to you, maybe even the specific ones that the provider you're currently with didn't give you the right answers for. See where they lie. If that seems to not work and the practice you're at isn't successful, if you Are in kind of an isolated world where you're not around a lot of birth and you're not around around a lot of women and childbearing age.
Again, go to those Facebook groups, go to those community things and just put out an anonymous, Hey, I want to have an unmedicated birth. Is there any people in this community that have had a good or bad experience with providers around here? There is a wealth of knowledge and how many people just. are like, you don't have to be a professional or a doctor or, uh, have 12 kids to have a good or bad birth experience.
You could have had one really, really awesome labor. That was all of your hopes and dreams. And your provider listened to you one time, four years ago, and that could be the perfect provider for you. So leaning on that community, the support, um, getting those recommendations. And then if nothing happens there, you can always go to Instagram and Facebook and find people like us, birth workers.
Vanessa, I don't want to speak for you, but like, I know I'm perfectly fine if somebody messages me as lending help. I'm sure you are the same. I'm pretty sure
Vanessa: yes, absolutely.
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: right? I'm pretty sure anybody in birth, if someone's like, Oh my gosh, I'm freaking out. We're going to be like, yes, let us help you.
Vanessa: Yes, we'll validate you, we'll encourage you, we'll empower you
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Right.
Vanessa: um, let's be transparent here. We probably all have our own list of, Pros and cons and thumbs up thumbs down providers in the city of Columbus
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: right.
Vanessa: Based on the birth stories that we've experienced secondhand or have heard from other birth workers
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Yes.
Vanessa: Which providers lean into the different types of birth styles? And like you said those key things c section rates episiotomy rates 39 week induction rates Um, those are all important factors and I just I don't think we touched on this earlier either, but like you said, that's public information, typically speaking, and there is a website, Leapfrog, which I can link in the show notes too, where you can go and search for your specific hospital where you plan to give birth and you can see the rates there Do you have any recommendations in terms of other online resources or ways to get the public information per provider other than just asking? the provider directly
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: In my experience, birth workers are usually the best resource. So messaging, calling, um, most providers probably aren't going to just willy nilly give you all that information. Unfortunately.
Vanessa: Yes, but it's your right to
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Yes.
Vanessa: and if you ask for specific numbers They should provide it, and if they don't, that's a red flag, too.
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Yes, exactly. Yep. Keep weeding them out.
Vanessa: I think something else that's important. Is that like literally you can. Walk into the hospital in labor
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Okay.
Vanessa: and what some people don't realize is like hospitals have on staff, clinic doctors, in house OB's?
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: the floor OBGYNs? ,
Vanessa: Yeah, they're not affiliated necessarily with any practice outside of the hospital, but that you, if you show up in labor, like somebody will be there to help deliver your baby, so even if you're in your literally 39th week or your 40 weeks and your providers refusing to let you go past 40, 41 weeks, and you're like, I trust my body, I trust my baby, estimated due dates are that, they're an estimate. And you're like, okay, goodbye. See you later. OBGYN, it's never too late, I guess is my point. Like you can literally walk into a hospital and they have to serve you.
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Yes.
Vanessa: Um, and so,
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: We talk about this so much with all my moms, in the sense of like, if something's starting to go downhill, or we call it like the bait and switch, where your provider has
Vanessa: yeah.
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: been full the whole time, and then 38 weeks hits, and they're like, okay, well, also, you're 35, and also, baby's measuring a little big, and also, we need to get this induction scheduled, and you're like, I don't want a freaking induction.
We just talked about this my entire pregnancy. They'll be like, well, what am I going to do if they're mad at me or if they don't like me or whatever, and I'm like, girlfriend, you literally, exactly like you said, can show up at any hospital in labor and you are protected by law to need to be served. This also computes for like,
if you did schedule the induction. Cause again. Get there pressured into it. They schedule the induction or they schedule the c section. Well, what happens if I don't go I'm like Then it doesn't happen. It's they just move on. You don't have to show up for any of these appointments. And this, like, even if it is a provider or maybe it's a practice policy and your provider's like, well, because of this, we need to do this.
You schedule that cesarean, you don't show up, you go into labor a week later, your provider will still be there. It's not like you're nixed because you didn't follow some specific protocol that they have. You will have a baby. You will have a full care team that cares about you and cares about what's going on.
Um, Even like hospital switches, I was just having this conversation with one of my moms because she wants to relocate so she can have access to a tub. And she was talking about, well, how are they going to know when I'm in labor? How are they going to know all these things? And I'm like, your medical history has nothing to do with, with your ability to have a baby right now.
You just got to show up. They'll get all of that as they can. And you just focus on having this baby. , Which , for healthy pregnancies, it's a little easier. Um, but.
Vanessa: Right.
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: and I think that's the OPGYN's role as well. Like they passive aggressively kind of manipulate the mind to think, this is the only way to do it.
And this is the way that you have to do it. Well, that's just, that's just not the reality. You can have a baby whenever, however you want.
Vanessa: Right. Right. Yeah. And this is, this episode's definitely not to knock on OBGYNs, by the way, but it's our role as birth doulas to help you. Everybody's birth preferences are different. every single person, every single pregnancy, even the same person, their priorities might change from one birth to the next based on their experience with previous births, right? so our role and our advice in this episode, hopefully you see as we want you to feel empowered and aligned with your birth care provider, because you feel under their care it has an impact on your nervous system and I think I've discussed this in previous episodes too in various ways where when you feel safe and supported and listened to and heard your body and your, , hormones and the physio physiological birth process can unfold as it's meant to second you need to go into fight or flight mode for whatever reason, right? That's when labor stalls. That's when birth trauma happens. You know, that's when the cascade of interventions happens And so having a birth care provider whether that be an ob gyn or a midwife What have you? , Is so paramount to the foundation of feeling safe , the likelihood that you are choosing an OBGYN and a hospital birth opposed to a midwife or a home birth setting is probably because you want that medical professional with,, for emergent situations should those arise, you know?
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Yep.
Vanessa: So I think that's also something to that. Women often are like, well, doctor knows best doctor, is the medical professional. Um, and yes, that is true that they are trained, , surgeons. But like you said, sometimes that is don't treat each patient with individualized care and they default to practice policy, hospital policy, these are the boxes I need to check, on to the next appointment.
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Yes. Yes. Yes.
Vanessa: understand that there are amazing OBGYNs out there. are also some pretty shady ones that do the bait and switch
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Um,
Vanessa: but the honest truth is they are highly overused and over recommended.
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Yes.
Vanessa: care.
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Yeah.
Vanessa: we want you to feel empowered safe and heard to ask the questions so that you know when it truly is emergent that you can trust that provider that they're not just bringing this to the table because they're used to doing that for every patient that it truly is, what's recommended based on medical necessity.
Okay, and then you did mention, too, lots of books and resources, , specifically in conversation that come up, came up for nutritionists, but I'm also interested, in any, typical resources that you might refer your clients to.
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Yes. So in regards to books specifically, there are loads and loads and loads of books. , My personal favorite kind of keeping on like a hospital unmedicated birth vibe
Vanessa: Mm
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: is the natural hospital birth , as well as the birth partner. Those are kind of holy grails, I feel like, for most birth workers, but they're also beautiful assets for partners , as well as you as the pregnant person,, in addition to anything by Ina May.
She is amazing. She's wonderful. And then there's also in regards to food, it's called the first 40 days, and it's essentially Centered around like the, the old time belief of the first 40 days of the healing of the womb are the most important. Um, which of course, regardless of like beliefs, anybody post extreme experience is a little sensitive.
So we want to heal that body as best as we can.
Based services.
Vanessa: you follow on social media that you recommend to your clients.
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Yes.
Vanessa: yeah, evidence based birth is a big one. I, I always defer back to that,
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Yes.
Vanessa: For simplified information of what evidence shows,
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Yes.
Vanessa: , So that you can make an informed decision on, the whole brain's rundown of benefits, risks, alternatives, ,
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: And I always encourage to kind of in regards to the education aspect. If you are having a hospital birth, I put a lot of weight on my on my family's not taking a hospital birth education class. Not to say it's not valid information. Um. But if we want that holistic, unbothered kind of perspective of birth, we need it to come from a place that supports the holistic, unbothered perspective of birth.
So whether that's like, I think you just released a podcast with Caroline with her Lamaze course. As well as there's evidence based birth courses with doulas here in Columbus. There's also different ones on the internet that I'll refer to my moms. , And of course cost sensitivity always comes into a play.
So there is no shame in the game of just not being able to afford things. I completely was there as a 20 year old pregnant college student. Um, so any information you can get is great. Your local libraries are an awesome resource, , as well as Pampers. Again, not the best place to get your birth info, but they do have a separate hourly free birth education course.
So it's a good resource to just kind of learn about the biology of birth, we're trying to get a grant cleared right now through Franklin County . I help out at the organization called Mobi Nurses here. We do like free or low cost doula services to women in the area. I got kind of a connection from my time at Franklin County.
She's asking me to come back and do a free cost, like free, no cost to the parents, trimester based prenatal course. Like, um,
Vanessa: Oh, that's awesome.
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: I'm so excited.
Vanessa: Oh, yeah. Yeah. You'll have to give me the details so we can put those in the show notes
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: yes, I will. Um, so when that goes through and we kind of get that situated, that's one of those things. You got to reach out. You got to look in your community. Google's a really great resource, as well as those Facebook groups., People just have a lot of info, so don't be afraid to, to reach out and be social.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Vanessa: out of that people pleaser personality if that's you. , And that you're not being a difficult patient.
, You're human and you have bodily autonomy and it's your right to ask those questions and seek those resources.
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Yeah. Yes. No, I completely agree. Yeah. And as somebody who had that, you know, unexpected pregnancy, with an OB and had all of my wishes honored because I just, I mean, I got blessed with an amazing obstetrician who cared and empowered me and educated me to know my needs , and to figure out what my goals were and honor those.
I got into birth work, not with the perspective that everything needs fixed, but with the perspective
Vanessa: hmm. Mm
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: there are really awesome people out there. We just have to do a little bit of the work as the pregnant people to find those awesome resources. It's not just OBs. Some midwives are fantastic, some midwives aren't.
Some nurses are awesome, some nurses aren't. It's a field with human error , so we have to have grace.
Vanessa: hmm.
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Whenever I meet with moms, I always say, I am not a doula who feels like there is a correct way to birth. I don't feel that any birth is right or wrong. I don't feel that any decision is right or wrong, but it's all about what you feel is best for you and your family.
And that's where a little bit of elbow grease kind of in that preparation process can pay off. Oh my gosh, it can pay off tenfold in the outcome. ,
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: So kind of just putting a little bit of work in on the front end, whether that's, , hiring a bunch of people that you care about, whether that's speaking with a doula, or meeting with a local group in your city that can give you that information and resources,
I think the overarching theme of today is honestly just support. You need to feel supported and you need to feel heard by everybody in your life to unlock that physiological process that we kind of touched on. Because if you don't have that then you're just kind of surviving as your body's experiencing something extreme and that is completely not what it was meant to be.
So I hope that, I hope that listening to podcasts like these and just kind of rejoicing in all of the information that is out there. If you're pregnant, or if you're looking to get pregnant, or if you have kiddos, you can kind of find strength in this, that all of the wonderful things in your hope and dreams are out there, you just might have to find them sometimes.
Vanessa: Yeah, you got to know where to search and the questions, the curiosity that you need,, to be able to find them. Okay. Is there anything else that you wanted to touch on Daisy?
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: Not that I can think of,
Vanessa: I always love to ask as a parting question , what keeps you passionate and motivated to stay in the field of birth work?
Daisy Vance CD, CBC, CHES: honestly, in a selfish way, seeing my moms after they deliver their baby and accomplishing their dreams or as close to as was possible. I mean, I still cry at every birth. It's freaking ridiculous. You would think at this point it wouldn't be so emotional. , But it's just like, it's so beyond empowering to see what women and families are capable of.
, But I've been gifted with just like the ability to be with people in that stage of life and help them feel comfortable and safe. It truly, that's what empowers me is just the empowering of other people and seeing that outcome flourish.
Vanessa: I love that. And I can sense your passion in that. Well, thank you so much.
Thank you so much for spending time with me today. I hope you found this episode helpful and encouraging on your journey. Don't forget to hit subscribe so you never miss a future episode. And if you enjoyed today's conversation, I'd be so grateful if you left a quick review. It helps others find the show.
For more information, resources, and links mentioned in this episode, be sure to check out the show notes. You can also connect with me on instagram@breathandbirth.co for more support and inspiration. Until next time, remember. You've got this, and you're never alone in this journey.
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